Ramon Carner: «The independent Catalonia will be the pillar of southern Europe».

  1. Ramon Carner: «The independent Catalonia will be the pillar of southern Europe».

Catdavant. Logo.Catdavant. Sunday, 22 nd of November of 2020.

Ramon Carner: «The independent Catalonia will be the pillar of southern Europe».

The former president of the Cercle Català de Negocis (Catalan Business Circle) trusts Alexandre Deulofeu’s prediction of a new state in 2029.

Sunday 22nd of November of 2020.
Translation: Núria Comas Viladrich.

Ramon Carner.

The local section of the ERC party in Sant Feliu de Codines, municipality where he served for five years as deputy mayor; the Cercle Català de Negocis (Catalan Business Circle), which he promoted and chaired until 2016; Reagrupament; Bloc Sobiranista Català; the UPDIC, with which he runned for mayor of Barcelona against Trias and Colau and collaborator of the documentary «The Lie», as a militant of the party Directe68. This is the long resume of Ramon Carner, an economist of restless spirit who has been jumping from challenge to challenge as he kept bumping into disappointments, conformism and broken promises. He voices up his concern on the fact that after a decade of deception, the time has come to change Catalonia’s architects and prioritize the business network as the basis for shaping independence with guarantees.

How was your experience in the Catalan Business Circle?

During the period of Montilla as Catalonia’s president, we realized that the pro-independence speech had been diluted. The depression came and it was necessary to unite small entrepreneurs in order to help move the country forward, so the idea was to create an economic lobby with the intention of influencing national catalan politics for there were already many Spanish entities fulfilling that role. But today, the entity no longer has this role and has rather become a pedagogical and information tool for economic data dissemination, although its president, recently did a very good and daring release. In the last four years, the initial goal of the entity has deteriorated and it should return to its roots, because there are already many cultural or patriotic catalan associations but there are no Catalan economic lobbies at all.–

Would returning to the initial goal require resuming the old philosophy of the entity or replacing the people who integrate it?–

If there are people in the organization who are also inside the ANC (Catalan National Assembly), an organization that has disappointed most of the pro-independence activists because they have not complied with anything they promised, then a replacement must take place. Neither of both organizations are bringing people together, but dropping off affiliates–.

How do you see the catalan process, considering that many people have already figured out that it is a hoax but that some do not want or can not assume yet?–

I see that the deception has not yet been discerned by many people who suffer from Stockholm Syndrome and is unable to understand the betrayal. Because of this and the manipulating media in our country, regular people continue without seeing the facts. But I also believe that in the next elections people will wake up and the parties that have betrayed the folk and built an independence process based on lies, will lose votes.–

But what about the recent polls that give ERC a clear victory…–

The polls carried out by the Generalitat are a lie and the independentist block will be fragmented in the next elections. We should think about the self-employed and the working class and recover the groundbreaking spirit of the Cercle Català de Negocis (Catalan Business Circle): there must be a revolution of the self-employed, they are the working class of the 21st century and in Catalonia add up to about 600,000 but unfortunately they can do nothing more than trying to push their businesses for 20 hours a day and pay abusive taxes to the state. In the Netherlands, for example, the fee for a freelancer is 90 euros and in Spain it is 360 euros. In the UK when you become self-employed you pay no fees for the first two years. It is necessary to recover the enthusiasm of these entrepreneurs that no longer have a job because only then, the motivation for independence will come. The parties that now claim for independence won’t achieve anything with such high unemployed rates.–

As background noise can be heard the rumors of a tri-party already agreed between PSC, Comuns and ERC, that would be the political grave of the former…–

We all know that Pere Aragonès and the rest of ERC leaders are not pro-independence but straw men appointed for continuing the Spanish occupation in the catalan Parliament, otherwise we would already be independent. If ERC allies with the PSC party and the Comuns party, in my opinion this would be a consistent move, because they would finally expose themselves openly and stop fooling us for good. The current parties in the Parliament are made up of sponsored and poorly skilled individuals who are not professional politicians. People may have been asleep or deceived for five years, but it must start a sort of trigger to make them react.–

The problem is the abysmal difference between the leaders of the parties and the local basic party militants that are real independentists.–

Exactly, the ruling political elite in Spain is bought and the folk are silent and suffer from it. First we need to build a good foundation, a political renovation must take place in the Parliament in order to help the country to grow. With the current entrenched political class we won’t achieve anything because on the contrary, right now it only does a weak favor to democracy which should be based on ciclic renovation and on moving forward into the future.–

How did you live the flight of companies away from Catalonia, magnified by the media and with the king’s support behind it?–

I really liked it because the fact that companies that do not want to contribute to a bountiful, free and competitive Catalonia were leaving, would make place in the market for other companies that do want to contribute. From the studies made by the Cercle Català de Negocis (Catalan Business Circle), we know very well that when an independence process is carried out and businesses and companies leave the country, that country’s economy reactivates and returns much stronger after two years, this means that we would suffer a little in the beginning but in two years time, we would have our country back. Or is it a better option to continue for another 300 years under Spanish rule? The entrepreneurial and dynamic nature of Catalan people would make new entrepreneurs occupy these vacant positions.–

The million dollar question: can it be confirmed for the umpteenth time that an independent Catalonia would be economically viable?–

Economic studies on an independent Catalonia point out that for the last hundred years, Catalonia could become a wealthy and economically dynamic state experiencing a social rise and an increment of employment opportunities for the young population. It would become one of the pillars of southern Europe, the Netherlands of southern Europe.–

Unionism often uses a speech of fear based on the argument of the impossibility of surviving outside the European Union, as if the EU were a bargain…–

The current Europe of the States could have some reluctance at first, but are the Catalans who will have to decide if they either want to join the EU or go to EFTA or deal with Russia, China or the United States. Catalonia could be the connection link for southern European countries (Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece) that nowadays do not get the head above the water and often must be economically rescued. Furthermore, Europe needs a powerful state in the south. The EU maybe doesn’t want Catalan independence now, but once done it won’t let go of a powerful Catalonia that could potentially be a positive contributing state. Spain is a negative contributor and must find another growth model other than continuing to take advantage of Catalonia.–

If the national debt keeps growing, could Spain go bankrupt?–

Sure, Spain will have to be intervened but luckily, just at the most needed moment will receive even more european funds due to the Covid, Europe will be in the red for giving money to the south. We already know that most of the money will end up in the pocket of Florentino’s Pérez family and the economic elites of Madrid and in order for this not to happen, this money will have to be supervised in a different way this time. According to various economic newspapers, the money that Spain will receive from next year will be the equivalent of four times a Marshall Plan. The economist Miquel Puig recently encouraged catalan entrepreneurs to contribute with daring projects as there will be money to make them happen. It is funny that in the end, the Covid will save Spain.–

Spanish magnates won’t think likewise…–

No, of course, the country is now saved from bankruptcy and has prolonged its agony for a bit. Before, Merkel used to advise cost contention in order to prevent the national deficit from rising, but now this has changed, because by applying cost contention policies Spain is now in a debt situation. The state of autonomies with parliaments everywhere was set up to become a «café para todos» («coffee for everybody») and to prevent Catalonia and the Basque Country to fight for their independence, but it has ended up ruining Spain: it is an inefficient country where some privileged families live very well and the folk is continuously deceived and unable to bear the burdening costs derived from civilian servants and politicians wedges of each Autonomous Community. Catalonia has always tried to help Spain since the 19th century through the Mancomunitat and the Lliga because back in those times, Spain was Catalonia’s main business partner.–

We’ve wasted too much time trying to fit in…–

Exactly, back at that time we already realised that should we become independent we would create the need for an economic revolution in the Spanish State that would be forced to find a new functional economical model, with the help of Europe.–

In regard to fiscal plundering, are the numbers still the same?–

Yes, the Generalitat puts it at 8 or 9%, but we know that in fact, it is the 16%. There are studies that can prove it, it’s a shame that we don’t have free media to inform us properly about it.

How many of the millions leaving the territory should remain in Catalonia? -

If it is 8 or 9%, it means 16 billion, if it is the double it would be about 32 billion euro that leave annually and do not return, it is a direct but also an indirect plunder because the spanish government keeps assuring that will build roads and other infrastructures that never happen–

And additionally we must also consider Madrid’s fiscal dumping strategies–

Yes, a friend of mine has a company that builds kitchen items and materials like ovens, burners, stoves… He set up a subsidiary company in Madrid and had to suspend payments because he did a judgment mistake: when they realised that his company was of Catalan origin, they stop buying from him and additionally, they took advantage of the subsidies from the European Regional Development Fund (ERDF) and the European Union to set up kitchen furniture production halls with tax exemptions for five years. This meant that the devices were 50% cheaper than those of the catalan company. I have seen many catalan stickers production companies shutting down because for the past eight years, in ERDF and European Union’s industrial areas located in Murcia where companies that do not pay a penny are settled, they manufacture the same product 50 or 60% cheaper than the locally manufactured in Catalonia. Catalan companies are collapsing because of Madrid’s tax dumping strategies. Catalonia has no state structures and barely has the resources to maintain this ridiculous administration…–

What do you think about the pandemic prevention measures? Politicians have been improvising on the go and there is a very thin line between health and economy.–

I believe that all is orchestrated, with false data of dead and infected, to give an almost deadly blow to the Catalan middle class that somehow still keeps standing. The Generalitat’s policies on the matter have been fatal for SMEs, and keeping in mind that there are studies that suggest that all of these were not necessary.–

What type of measures should have been adopted?–

For instance, the ones adopted in Sweden, where people can go without face masks and do not become infected, health measures have to be taken but they should not have wiped out the economy; bars and restaurants owners complain that they were the sector who best adapted their establishments for the pandemic and eventually, have had to shut down anyway, it does not makes sense. The laws and rules that have been made have no other purpose than to destroy and finish the middle class which is the one that has always economically supported the country. Is my opinion that Catalans have always been people ahead of their time with innovative ideas and pushing forward, but in this case we have been lagging and now the moods are rising to fever pitch.–

And with a financial system that is torn apart by mergers.–

The need for Catalonia to develop its economic power would be resolved through having its own financial system. What is happening now is the consequence of not having its own state, central bank or ministry of finance. In the last twenty years all what Catalonia had to this respect has been torn apart: first it was the savings banks, now, the banks, and soon there will be nothing left.–

Will we be independent soon?–

Alexandre Deulofeu predicted that Catalonia would become independent in 2029, it seems to be the time we need to lay off a good foundation after ten years of lies in which nothing has been done. He left it written in the book «The mathematics of history». According to some calculations on the permanence of historical empires, in 2029 Spain will cease to be an empire at the moment it loses its last colony, which is Catalonia. The book was published in the 1940s and predicted the rise of Hitler, World War II, the dismembering of the United States1, the collapse of the USSR… all predictions have been fulfilled and I suppose that, as he was from Figueres, he had invested special efforts to make sure that his prediction about Catalonia was right.

Link to the original interview in Catalan language:



1 Note from the administrator:

This note is to further clarify the affirmation released by the businessman Ramon Carner during the interview in regards to the dismembering of the United States.

Alexandre Deulofeu (1903-1978) described the situation of the United States within its first aggressive Federal phase in which society was splitted into capitalists and proletarians.

The above situation was preceded by an imperial depression phase in which a triple civil war took place: between social classes, ethnic groups and opposing leaders. The faction’s winner and its leader reunited the country, established a unitary state and began the second aggressive, absolutist phase, which ended in a military defeat that deterred the empire from trying to conquer the rest of the world.

After the military defeat, a recovery takes place in a time record after which commences the conservative stage and the blooming of the empire, which relates to the situation of Germany today.

This is what should have happened if the leading politicians of the USA never knew about Alexandre Deulofeu’s book «The mathematics of history».

But it happened that on the early 60’s of the XXth century, a brigade general from Venezuela who was studying at NATO’s War Superior School of Paris and named Víctor José Fernández Bolívar, bumped into an old copy of Deulofeu’s Mathematics of history in a bookshop. He showed a prominent interest for this work the aim of which was to prevent wars through their initial forecasting and got in touch with its author.

Together with Deulofeu wrote another book named Los principios matemático-históricos y la evolución de la libertad (Historical Cycles and the Evolution of Liberty, in English version), which was signed by Fernández Bolívar as his graduation thesis. A copy of this new book reached the Pentagon.

Also the surrealist painter Salvador Dalí, a childhood friend of Alexandre Deulofeu, offered a copy of «The mathematics of history» book to the banker and oil magnate Nelson Rockefeller.

Therefore, we have come into a situation in which the political and economical decision makers of the United States of North America could have been aware of the consequences of historical cycles applied to their own territory and were in a position to avoid a greater evil during the imperial depression phase that the country was facing back then.